Big Questions, Short Answers with Sian Jaquet
(Feat, Andy's unsolicited advice.)
What are the things that make life, relationships, business and the big picture work?
Andy asks Sian, his wife, these big questions. And with a humorous, light-hearted touch, in 10-15 minutes they will discuss the things that really matter and find short answers to bring us all success and happiness.
Sian is a much sought-after international executive coach, board member and keynote speaker who promotes living and working a values-based life to gain happiness and success. Andy is her husband of 35 years, and the ying to her yang, So the conversation is honest, real and funny.
“I hope you'll be entertained. I hope you have a little smile. And I hope every now and again there will be a thought that you refilter in your head and think: Okay, that resonated.” - Sian Jaquet
For more content, check out Sian's website sianjaquet.com, and her online course: Create The Life You Truly Love
Big Questions, Short Answers with Sian Jaquet
Big Question | How do you combat workplace bullying? Ep25
What happens when the power dynamic at work transforms into a tool of intimidation and belittlement? Our latest podcast episode tackles the pervasive and often misunderstood issue of workplace bullying. We begin by defining it as a repeated, intentional act designed to harm, distinguishing it from mere managerial directives. We delve into the psychology behind bullying, often rooted in the bully's insecurities and desire for power, and discuss how past experiences can skew one's perception of being bullied. Recognising these patterns is crucial to understanding the fine line between clear boundaries and real bullying.
Finding your voice amid such adversity is another critical theme. We explore how resilience and self-protection can be nurtured from childhood through to adulthood. Effective strategies include assertive communication and calmly confronting disrespectful behaviour. Self-awareness, coupled with a solid foundation of evidence, plays a vital role in addressing these issues. Interestingly, many bullies may simply lack self-awareness and can change once they understand their impact. Join us for actionable insights into creating a more respectful and empowering workplace.
For more content, check out Sian's website sianjaquet.com, and her online course: Create The Life You Truly Love.
www.sianjaquet.com
So you've got a funny grin on your face. It's like you're frightened to even say it. It's not frightened it's like Welcome to Big Questions. Short Answers. I'm Sian.
Speaker 1:And I'm Andy Sian's husband asking the big life questions.
Speaker 2:And possibly adding a little bit of unsolicited advice.
Speaker 1:This podcast is brought to you by Sian's value-based online course. Visit sianjackeycom to find out more. Okay, so the question of it we touched on it in an earlier podcast and what I want to talk about and it has to do with burnout, but this takes it a bit further is workplace bullying, work bully, bully, bully Something that I know that you abhor, but it happens a lot, doesn't it? It happens a lot.
Speaker 2:What do you mean by workplace bullying?
Speaker 1:Well, again, you always ask me to clarify these things, these big questions. Well, I suppose, it's to do with in a situation of intimidation, where the magic word you're looking for is repeated, say again Repeated, repeated, say that again.
Speaker 2:Bullying is an action or a way of being treated that doesn't leave you feeling good, wherever on the scale. But there is a big difference between somebody in a work situation giving you a clear instruction to do something that you don't want to do, and you hear it, you internalize it, and it's when you're bullying me by telling me to do that. Yeah, on a one off occasion. I mean, there's quite a lot of times in my work when I kind of unravel that, yeah, I am being bullied. Well, ok, we'll define it. Bull all that? Yeah, I am being bullied. Well, okay, we'll define it. Bullying is when there is the way I think of it. Right is whoever is doing the bullying. There's some prep time in their head beforehand. It's not a one-off in the moment. It's you are premeditatingly trying to be unreasonable. Put somebody or a group down. It's directed towards somebody and you can. It's intended to intimidate and it's intended to make somebody let me just use a word that we'll all understand hurt. Yeah, that's bullying.
Speaker 1:But when you say intended, there are some managers who use that as their managerial technique. They're constantly bullies.
Speaker 2:Well then, they're going to be a bully inside of work and outside of work. And again, the people who are. If you are a bully, you have an inadequacy, you're looking for power or you're trying to cover something up in your own self Bullying. The first question to ask yourself, you know, if you feel unhappy and you feel hurt and sad because of the way you're being treated, the first thing I would ask anybody to explain to me is has it happened before? Does that person do it to other people? Yeah, Is there a pattern to this behavior? Because then I'm more inclined to do more digging and research as to is this a bullying situation?
Speaker 2:The other side of the coin is, I quite often come across and it does tend to be younger people and not saying every young person is flaky. That is not what I'm saying. You know it's an. I am being treated unfairly. They are bullying me and actually I'm not. You know it's an. I am being treated unfairly. They are bullying me, yeah, and actually I'm not sure they are bullying you. They're being very clear about what their expectations are and you don't like hearing it.
Speaker 1:Right. So what you're saying is that sometimes, as a receiver, you can misinterpret instructions because you just don't like them.
Speaker 2:Yep, and then the word bully is brought out because you just don't like them. Yep, and then the word bully is brought out Right because everyone knows that's a kind of HR issue. I'm, you know, as you said earlier, you know it's a button in me, right? I have very little tolerance for people who manage other people, whether it's in the workplace or actually in family situations that they use bullying as their fundamental technique.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like an overpowering power, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it's needing to have power over somebody, but the difference is and this is again the world according to Sharn. I'm sure there are many other people who'd say I was way off mark, but the way I filter it is. Is there a consistency in a pattern here? Yes, and this is a weird thing to say, but this is actually what I think. Is the person who's doing the bullying getting their jollies out of this? Do they actually enjoy belittling and putting somebody down?
Speaker 2:right yeah, and I'm sad to say that there are a frightening number of people who do like that feeling of power over another human being by belittling them, and they do it consistently because it makes them feel good about themselves. Well, you know, if you unravel it all, a bully has got some issues about their own sense of confidence and their own self-belief, or we're tipping into personality disorders. That's a whole different ballgame. Yeah, but I think that you know, if I'm talking to somebody and you're looking at my working environment and I feel like I'm being bullied, the questions you need to ask yourself. They're quite simple really. Is there a pattern to it? Is it happening to anybody else? Or am I allowing myself, yes, to respond to something in an emotional way that makes me feel bad, Because actually I'm being challenged with a clear boundary here. Yes, you're not actually being bullied. You are being given a very clear boundary.
Speaker 1:Do you think there's some blurring that goes on there.
Speaker 2:Well, I think we're all triggered, aren't we? From our life experience, and you know we don't suddenly get out of bed in the morning and go to work and all the rest of our life experience disappears. It's all part and parcel of how we respond to something in the moment. Yeah, I can.
Speaker 1:I mean you always say, like not to bring up my school life, but you always stand up to the bully. And I remember having a good old fight with one of the bullies at school and I felt very proud about that. But you always say, oh, you stand up to the bully, yeah, stand up in his face, yeah. And you still think that works, not just in a playground situation.
Speaker 2:Well, it's age and stage, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Let's be fair Not in a playground situation, but in a work situation.
Speaker 2:Well, let me go back to the playground situation, because actually it's in school is where we learn this resilience. We learn how to protect ourselves from people who are overpowering us. Is it bullying, is it intimidating, I don't know. Whatever it is right, somebody's overpowering us. Well, it's in school. That's where we learn where our boundaries are and what you know. We begin to work out what's right and wrong.
Speaker 2:So I have on numerous occasions, you know, chatted to people, friends, colleagues, even in work situation, where they'll say you know my child's at school and they're being bullied, right, what do I do? How do I? How do I? How do I manage that?
Speaker 2:So if somebody's, if you're dealing with a younger child, that's in school I mean, if you remember, even when our kids were little and in school and they'd be, you know some so it's being nasty to me and they're hurting my feelings and they're not letting me play and they're whatever, whatever, whatever. What I would say to our kids and I've shared this with many people is you teach your kids to put your hand up you know, the palm of your hand in front of somebody and say stop doing that. You are hurting my feelings. Now I I think you're laughing at me. But if you've got a five, six year old who's able to say that, right, what they're doing is they're teaching themselves, they're recognizing their need to protect themselves and they're finding their voice right. Yeah, they're not becoming a victim, they're not allowing somebody to run, shot, rough, shot off of them right stop that.
Speaker 2:You are hurting my feelings yeah yes, if you, like, all I do is as people get older, whether it's work or whatever. Yeah, I take that concept and I'll present it in a way that you, at this age and stage, can say it. Yeah, so if somebody at work is having a go at you and is not making you feel safe and intimidating you and belittling you and disrespecting you, right, the first place I would go to is right, you need to find a safe way to sit down with that person and say to them you don't accuse us, by the way, we don't start by burning the house down. And if you can't do it on your, by the way, we don't start by burning the house down. And if you can't do it on your own, by the way, it's perfectly okay to ask somebody to come with you to be there as you're doing it.
Speaker 2:I really do believe that, because sometimes there are serious power inequities, but you find a way of sitting down with somebody and saying, look, I just need to share with you in the last three weeks, this, this and this happened. And when with you in the last three weeks, this, this and this happened, right, and when it happened, you responded like this this is how it made me feel this was my experience. I don't know whether you're meaning to do that, but you're leaving me feeling disempowered, very unhappy, and I feel like I don't even want to bloody be here anymore. Look, you know you're asking me these questions and what's really jumping into my head is that the first person who's responsible for anything is yourself. Yes, do not be intimidated and bullied and treated appallingly anywhere, anywhere in your life, and find a way to find your voice, to explain how this is leaving you feeling.
Speaker 1:Without accusation.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes that's the key now there comes a point where you know there are very different situations. You know I'm talking the abcs here. Sometimes we're up to xyz of bullying and intimidating. That is a whole different ball game. But the chances are that, in a very basic term, either somebody is triggering you because the way they're communicating with you makes you feel hurt and small and disrespected. Are they doing it consistently? That is the fundamental difference, right, yeah, between having the odd clash with somebody yeah or somebody bullying you.
Speaker 1:And just a case of sitting down, and you know.
Speaker 2:All that in itself can be really, really difficult.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it can be difficult, can't it? You know saying stop, you're hurting my feelings like a five-year-old, but it's trying to understand the other person as to whether or not this is intentional or not. If it's bloody intentional, you need to get the hell out of there, I would imagine.
Speaker 2:Well, yes, and changing the circumstances is one way of doing it, but again, I'm not really an advocate of keep moving on, I'm an advocate of learn the skills. Learn the skills to find your voice. And literally, literally. Am I safe here? And is that person willing to listen, willing to learn? I've got to be fair here, right? There are people that I've worked with and I know who have been accused of being bullies.
Speaker 1:Okay, right, there's the other side. You've been working with people who have been accused of being bullies, okay.
Speaker 2:And there have been occasions when it was absolutely right for that execution to be put out of their doorstep, because they and were yeah. But if I'm honest, the vast majority of people, they're not really bullies, right. They're just not very self-aware. They get very wound up under pressure. They overbate the cake in the way in which they communicate with people, the, the tone and the attitude, and when you actually sit them down and you explain to them in a calm, processed, evidence way you need evidence if you're going to challenge anybody's behaviour in that, certainly in a work situation, they're devastated that they think, oh no, oh right, or I never, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Suddenly they realise and, I would say, most people I've ever needed to challenge, because the way in which they've presented themselves has been they're out of order the way they're speaking to people and the way they're leaving hell and desolation behind them. I can think of one guy who I worked with, who worked in a very male, very male environment where there was, you know, buckets of testosterone anywhere and the culture was whoever shouted the loudest and banged the table. That was the person who you responded to. You're right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll skip over the fact that that was actually an endemic cultural issue. But there was a disproportionate number of people in that organization who bullied their way and after kind of being involved for about six to twelve months, it was very clear that actually there was one bully who was quite high up the food chain who allowed this behavior to carry on because it suited their agenda, but the vast majority of people who were, you know we're talking quite a significant number of people. I have four or five people in a senior role were all being called bullies.
Speaker 2:They weren't bullies at all. They were reflecting the management style that they were under, number one.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 2:And it was like accepted that you could do that and it was only when you kind of stopped and unraveled.
Speaker 1:And put a bit of a mirror up.
Speaker 2:They were able to see how they were leaving broken, hurt people. And when you look at an organisation again, you can't speak to any HR expert who goes in there and knows on a daily basis what's happening. You look at any business where you've got a considerable. You've got one department where there's churn and burn and people are leaving out the door, but the leaders are still there and there's a lot of complaints about them. Hello, you know what I mean. But you're looking for consistency.
Speaker 1:As far as bullying is concerned, okay, it needs to happen more than once and if somebody really is a bully, you won't be the only person that they're bullying, and the thing to to address it either if you are the bully or are being bullied is is to note it, to actually step forward and get it out of the open and talk about it.
Speaker 2:And that's the bit that's really difficult, right, that is. It's really difficult when you've had a kicking. Your confidence is low, you've been disrespected, you're tired. Let's link it now. You talked earlier in another podcast about burnout, and that's what burnout looks like. Yeah, that you feel dreadful and you don't want to go into work and your energy is leaking. You know we're not taught, are we how to find our own voice and speak up for ourselves in an appropriate way? Because there is an appropriate way in the workforce, there's an appropriate way everywhere. But you know it's about.
Speaker 2:I would be saying to somebody, my advice to them would be okay. First of all, write down what you're talking about. When did it happen? How did it happen? How did it leave you feel? And once you've got two or three of them, then you need to go and share with that person and go to HR and ask them to come, a trusted colleague to come with you. Yeah, but find your voice. And again, I'm looping this back now to parenting, to school, to preparing people to be in the workplace. We need to take on the responsibility of teaching and empowering kids and young people to find their voice. Yeah, Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:You need to be able to speak up for yourself, and it's not an easy thing to do, but it's like everything else, you know once you use that muscle.
Speaker 2:It becomes easier. It becomes easier once you've learned how to do it. But if you're going to challenge in a working situation because you believe you're being bullied, you need evidence. You need how, why, where and when. Yeah, you know what I mean. You need to look at it from a very clear point of view, not an emotional one, which when, if you are being bullied, is a very, very hard thing to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is where we're going to have to leave it just now, but really really sound advice. Join us next time on Big Questions, Short Answers with Sian Jacquet and me, Andy.
Speaker 2:If you have any questions you want to ask, please send them via the website sianjacquetcom.
Speaker 1:If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe and share it with everyone you know.
Speaker 2:We really do appreciate you sharing 15 minutes with us.
Speaker 1:And if you want to do a bit more learning, go on to Sian's website sianjackaycom. There's a course on values to create life you truly love. I did it and it really does do what it says on the can.
Speaker 2:See you next time.
